Topic suggested by Kanchana on Thu Aug 13 16:21:58 .
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- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Apr 22 10:48:25
JayBee,
Thanks for the mAlaimARRup pathikam.
I couod not find the pozippurai for the poems.
But I was looking to see if campan-thar sang his signature pathikam piece (the 11th poem suffixed to the main 10 poems of the poem describing the composer and the benefits of reciting the pathikam. Voila there it is:
kAziyuLan and thamizAkaran etc. he calls himself "kAzi gnAnacampan-than" or "thamiz gnAnacampan-than" etc.
the 11 th poem:
̍ݑ Ƒް ލ
ޜƑ ݑ
Then I thought "let me check if his signature denunciation of budhdhists and jains which usally occurs as the 10th in the pathikam is also there or not"..there it is:
thErar, thEraiyar = budhdhists (thErAvAdham?)
amaN = saman = jain.
He usally denounces as "kuNtar", "maNtaiyar",
"ninRu koNTu thinpavar", "kaiyil uNavu vaiththuk koNtu uNpAvar" etc.
"̍㑥 "
ޗƑ ƀ 㑍
̍㑥 ƗƑލ
He is so skillful at this he did not have to change his style a bit...
- From: JayBee (@ sp-69-157.tm.net.my)
on: Thu Apr 22 11:10:04
Yes. And the eighth piece about Ravana is there, asking forgivance by playing the Yaalzh.
The ninth where he attests to the supremacy of Siva over Maal amd Ayan is also there:
"maalEmE puumElE maalE..etc."
He has also composed some Thiruvirukkuk kuRaL padhigams. They resemble the Vedic Mantras and their chant. Its also beautiful reading. Its heavenly when you recite it in the "chandas" form.
JayBee
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Apr 22 11:22:22
JayBee,
Could you make them ("thiruvirukkuk kuRaL") available too?
I am very very interested in reciting them.
Does the apparent presence of the "irukku" in
"thiruvirukkuk kuRaL" refer to "rig" vEdham?
You are right...another regular in campan-thar's pathikams is the supremacy of civan over mAl and ayan (piraman).
"ayanum mAlumAy muyalum mitiyinIr" [vIzimizalai]
"eri Ar cataiyum atiyum iruvar
theriyAthathOr thIth thiraL AyavanE" [maurukal].
Very sad to think why thEvAram msnuscripts were wilfully negelected...we are said to have only 1/20 or 1/15 of the mUvar.
Even from aruNakirin-Athar's compositions only 6-10% are said to have survived.
Chandra
- From: Kanchana (@ spider-ti082.proxy.aol.com)
on: Thu Apr 22 11:24:32
Chandra,
Agree with you on the emotionality in the previous kuRunthokai poem I'd posted. Will start posting in your akam poetry thread soon, the AsiriyappA
thread beckons too! Seriously wish there were 40 hours/day :-))
Vanchi,
Here's one more kuRunthokai poem for your article on konRai maram.
thOzi consoles thalaivi not to worry about the thalaivan who still has not come back from his business trip just because the konRai maram went into full bloom. After all, the konRai maram is silly enough to assume that kArkAlam has arrived and bloom, based on one small rainshower. "Don't trust this konRai blooming, kArkAlam is still not here, and your hero will return!" says thOzi.
A very cute poem, indeed!!
칗 : 66
: ր
: ״
! ڶҙ ;
ֻ雐
ב̑ , Ͱ̙
Ž ⴰ;
ź ̀ƙ .
Back later with more...
- From: JayBee (@ sp-69-212.tm.net.my)
on: Thu Apr 22 20:13:26
From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com) on: Thu Apr 22 11:22:22
JayBee, Could you make them ("thiruvirukkuk kuRaL") available too?
I am very very interested in reciting them.
Does the apparent presence of the "irukku" in
"thiruvirukkuk kuRaL" refer to "rig" vEdham?
Dear Chandra,
We are putting them up in the web-page on ThevAram. It will be found on "Odhuvaar's Thevaaram Home-page". But due to some technical errors, the page had some hitches. I'll see if the Odhuvaar has e-mail versions.
You are correct. It IS "Rig". The chandas is one of the chandas found in Rig Veda. Tamil and Veda have many common chandas/chandhams. The Thiruththaandakam of Appar is another chandas. The "PORRi Thiruththaandakam"s resemble the Sri Rudram of Thaithiriyam. The basic structure is there. Many words mean the same thing.
"Thannai nanRAgath thamilzh seyyumaaRE" they all sang. If you beleive, I'll say one more thing. Drop it if you don't. It carries the same Mantrik energy that the Vedic Mantra possessed.
I'll get you the Thiru Irukkuk kuRaL.
("KuRaL" - because of the short verse-form).
Talking about Viilzhimilzhalai which you mentioned above, the famous padhigam,
"Vaasi thiiravE, kaasu nalguviir;
maasil milzhalaiyiir! Esalillaiyee!"
Sometimes you could weep over such lines. Oh! Such beatitude!
That one, is one of the nine "thiru irukkuk kuRaLs" that Sambandhar composed.
JayBee
- From: Chandra (@ user-37ka0cg.dialup.mindspring.com)
on: Thu Apr 22 22:36:00
The Thiruththaandakam of Appar is another chandas. JayBee:
--------
The "PORRi Thiruththaandakam"s resemble
the Sri Rudram of Thaithiriyam. The basic structure is there. Many words mean the same thing.
"Thannai nanRAgath thamilzh seyyumaaRE" they all sang. If you beleive, I'll say one more thing. Drop it if you don't. It
carries the same Mantrik energy that the Vedic Mantra possessed.
------------
I do not understand the "Drop it if you don't" sentence. Could you clarify that please?
I do completely believe in the power of teh words of appar, campan-thar...they were great geniuses, rather meta-geniuses who generate geniuses out of mere mortals by association with them. They were infinitely more intelligent wiser than Einsteins and Poincare's who dealt with material things and these days just knowing a little bit of some material science seems to confer intellectual arrogance (different fron arrogance at an interpersonal level) to people.
We do not realize that the world is layere...you cannot derive from first principles the chemistry from particle physics which itself is tied only by intuitive jumps...even within physics they are layers. If everything could be explained in terms of our physics, then we have discovered the time machine...becuase then substituting the time and any other parameter such as space coordinates should tell you what exactly happened at that time...or what the activity of the mass or energy is at those coordinates..including what a human being thinks or will think...of course we are far from that. Basically you have understood the universe.
But we all think learning just a wee bit of elementary physics gives us the power to judge domains beyond our intellectual power....There is knowledge, intelligence, then wisdom and then love or divinity. There are multiple types of intelligence: mathematical, spatial, musical, athletic, interpersonal etc., menaing it is not meaningful to compare Newton with Shakespeare or with Mozart. Intelligence is subservient to wisdom and we often try to judge the worl using only the lower level intelligence.
Yes, That "vAci thIravE" pathikam is very moving. I have a cassette by Tharumapuram Swaminathan that brings out the emotions.
- From: Chandra (@ user-37ka0cg.dialup.mindspring.com)
on: Thu Apr 22 22:38:58
I noticed that you had said that "vAci thIravE" pathikam is also an irukkuk kuRaL! I have been reciting it every day for the last 16-17 months!
I am very glad to know this.
Thank you very much JayBee!
- From: JayBee (@ sp-69-77.tm.net.my)
on: Fri Apr 23 02:05:22
Chandra wrote:
>>I do not understand the "Drop it if you don't" sentence. Could you clarify that please?<<
I was just touching something from the twilight zone. Some people who are trained scientifically, don't take kindly to it:-)
So I had take a precaution:-)
Few people think in terms of other dimensions, other planes of existence, other levels of consciousness, beyond the horizons of physical existance , beyond the realms of our capable comprehension - something that Auvaiyaar calls "appaalukku appaal' and Appar calls "appaalukku appaalukku appaalaanai".
I must stop here for two reasons.
One - I must not go out of range, and number two - people might accuse me of proselytising:-)
JayBee
- From: bb (@ inehou-pxy05.compaq.com)
on: Wed Jul 7 16:23:47
read sujatha's article on sanga ilakkiyam in minnambalam:
http://www.minnambalam.com/minnidhal/MZ_04071999_C01_01.html
- From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Thu Aug 26 20:36:21
ȿ ɢ Ũ¢Ģ.
Ģ Ӿ즸 Ƣħ .
http://www.minnambalam.com
Ӹâ š Ũ¢ ﺢ .
- From: raghunandan Kulkarni (@ )
on: Thu Mar 16 22:27:51
Hi I m raghu from maharashtra and I m very much intrested in black magic B,cos few days before someone applyed it on me plz tell me what to do?
- From: Chandra (@ user-37ka0ao.dialup.mindspring.com)
on: Thu Mar 16 22:45:16 EST 2000
Mr.Kulkarni:
Please use the miscellaneous forum where I think already some thread is devoted to your question.
The ancient Tamil poets were not that easily associated with black magic :-))
Anyway for those interested in the Tamil words for black magic:
= black magic
= drug used in black magic
= black magician
- From: .ç/Chandra (@ user-37ka0ao.dialup.mindspring.com)
on: Thu Mar 16 22:49:00 EST 2000
--
ȿ ɢ Ũ¢Ģ.
---
ȿ ħ.
ɢ! :-))
ġŢ ȿ š
" ɢƢ" Ǣ¢ .
- From: JayBee (@ 203.106.94.117)
on: Tue Mar 21 09:17:32 EST 2000
>>>>>From: raghunandan Kulkarni (@ ) on: Thu Mar 16 22:27:51
Hi I m raghu from maharashtra and I m very much intrested in black magic B,cos few days before someone applyed it on me plz tell me what to do?
From: Chandra (@ user-37ka0ao.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Thu Mar 16 22:45:16 EST 2000
Mr.Kulkarni:
Please use the miscellaneous forum where I think already some thread is devoted to your question. <<<<<
Yes. There is a thread on Occult and Metaphysics in the Miscellaneous.
>>>> The ancient Tamil poets were not that easily associated with black magic :-))<<<<
Many of them were.
But most of them could make or break spells with their kaviththuvam. In itself, that was more than enough.
- From: JayBee (@ 203.106.94.145)
on: Tue Mar 21 21:04:59 EST 2000
If Raghunandhan wishes to discuss about his Black Magic problem in private, he is welcome to do so by private email with me. If there is some help that I could render.
Pro Bono Publici:-)
- From: s.senthilkmar (@ )
on: Sun Apr 30 03:11:28
tamil please
- From: JayBee (@ 203.106.94.174)
on: Sun Apr 30 19:27:03 EDT 2000
̸.
ۨ ã Ȣ ɢ Ө¢ Ţɡ, á ۼ ɢ š Цġ. Ţ â ......
Ǣ 측:-)
- From: Srinivasan V (@ proxy1.isng.intel.com) on: Mon Oct 29 00:33:31
If anyone is interested in a DEVARAM related discussions please visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/devaram
Thanks,
Srinivasan
- From: Srinivasan V (@ proxy1.isng.intel.com) on: Mon Oct 29 00:33:31
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