Topic started by Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net) on Wed Jul 17 19:42:02 .
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I wanted to start a topic on the thavil and collect whatever information we can about it. |
Responses:
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- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Mon Jul 29 18:14:50
I think each state has a different method of everything! Not only music, but food, language, etc; a difference in thavil and nadaswaram styles is not surprising. However, to claim one better over another is not an easy call.
- From: mani (@ spider-to034.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Jul 29 21:20:43
Typically, the Nadaswaram and thakil are played the traditional way in South India as a whole.
The difference is, Kerala and TN have made use of the thakil by playing with two sticks, and also by playing the nadaswaram to produce a faster an more higher pitch sound, but obviously these are for folk dances and certain religious processions accompanied by other instruments (the folk style). The style of playing usually depends on the occasion like lets say some Venkateswara kovil kumbabishegam procession, the style of playing would usually the traditional way, unlike a Murugan kovil procession, the pair is played the folk way.
Personally, I am more fond of hearing the pair the folk way.
- From: Mani (@ spider-to034.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Jul 29 21:35:05
Here are some pics of thakilmelam (folk style) from a Mahadevar procession in Aluva, Kerala.
http://www.cochinnet.com/festivals/aluva/images/melam.jpg
http://www.cochinnet.com/festivals/aluva/images/procession5.jpg
- From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk)
on: Tue Jul 30 06:11:39
Thanks for the pictures
- From: pramodh (@ aca1e0db.ipt.aol.com)
on: Tue Jul 30 07:12:02
The pisctures are nice. Can anyone spot whether they are using 2 sticks or one?
- From: Mani (@ cache-dr10.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Jul 30 14:08:23
pramodh,
In the second picture, you can see two sticks, in the first one, it seems as if the melam hasn't begun yet, and that can be observed by he sticks placed on top of the thakil.
- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Fri Aug 2 16:57:35
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think thavil/nadaswaram is more popular in Tamilnadu than Kerala. I believe thavil/nadaswaram is only used in certain parts of Kerala.
I find another thing interesting about thavil/nadaswarm. If you look at ANY commerical recording, you find the names of the thavil artists on the front! This is hardly the case with other forms of carnatic music, where the names are either in the inner flap where no one can see them, or they are not placed in the flap at all!
Looks like the thavil artists have made their stand...
- From: Mani (@ cache-dr10.proxy.aol.com)
on: Fri Aug 2 23:29:54
Rohan,
Actually thakil/nadaswaram is more popular in TN with vidwans. There are more artists that have cds like Kettoor Veerasamy Pillai; there are more vidwans like that in TN. In Kerala, the only one I know of is Thiruvizha Jayasankar.
Thakil/nadaswaram is found ALL OVER Kerala, it is mandatory for almost every temple, and it is mostly used for functions and festivals.
- From: pramodh (@ ac9e2504.ipt.aol.com)
on: Sat Aug 3 08:53:10
The most famous Nadhswaram artists are from Tamil Nadu, no question. I cant see nadhaswaram ever going to reach the heights of Rajaratnam Pillai and Arunachalam. The others who followed including Namagiripettai Krishnan, MPN bros, Sheik Chinna Moulana,and the recent Mambalam Sivaare all from Tamil Nadu. Rajaratnam has some Kerala connection, Iam not entirely sure. As I mentioned before, with the exception of Thiruvizha Jayasankar and maybe Vettikkavala Sasikumar, I cant think of anybody else from Kerala. I am not sure of the reasons for this. But generally the people dont have a good attitude towards these artists and consider them asjust to be some form of "background music players" in temples and marriages rather than as main stream artists. This is indeed very unfortunate.
Nadhaswaram has been a big inspiration for some of the best and trendsetting vocal singers of the last century including Ariyakudi, GNB and Semmangudi who have successfully adopted its style.
- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Sat Aug 3 11:35:12
I think the best way to support the nadaswaram concerts is by attending them! People like us, who realize the importance of this art, should make it a point to attend nadaswaram concerts wherever possible. When I go to Madras during the Music Season, I always go to the nadaswaram concerts. I have even had the experience of being the only audience member during one such concert. Try to visualize what the artists feel; they are literally playing for themselves, similar to a practice session.
My father is from Palghat, Kerala, and told me that nadaswaram is not as popular in Kerala as in TN. I have been to a few locations in Kerala and have not seen too many nadaswaram artists in temples, let alone concerts. But he did tell me about the "palla kutcheris" that occur during the kumbavishekam time at temples. He has heard many great artists when he was young, during this festival.
- From: mani (@ cache-dr10.proxy.aol.com)
on: Sat Aug 3 13:50:07
Rohan,
It depends where you go in Kerala. More nadaswaram vidwans will come out in Kerala, I recall seeing a lady from Kerala playing the nadaswaram in a magazine, she could be an upcoming artist! But nadaswaram and thakil definitely dominates TN, and is found all over the place. 80% of Kerala uses he pair though.
pramodh,
Sheikh Chinna Moulana is from Andhra.
- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Sat Aug 3 16:26:19
I see.
There is a husband-wife team of nadaswaram players. I am uncertain of their name, but I think they are related to Sheik Chinna Moulana.
- From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk)
on: Tue Aug 6 06:40:40
A couple of years ago I was sitting in Thomas Cookes in Chennai and got talking to the guy next in the queue. He was white-american, but living and teaching in Chennai. We quickly discovered a mutual interset in carnatic music. I was astonished to hear that his instrument was nadaswaram and that he played at a proffessional level in festivals. I didn't know that any non-indian had ever mastered this instrument.
- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Tue Aug 6 13:57:32
I am glad to find that in recent times, carnatic music has expanded its boundaries and has included foreginers to the art. Carnatic music was once the music for south indian brahmans, hence highly secular. Hindustani music destroyed this barrier many years ago (as it incorporated many Muslims as well) and perhaps is the reason why it is more successful than carnatic music.
I am actually teaching mridangam to an American college student living in my town in Michigan. He is quite enthusiastic and talented, and has been coming for the last month or so.
I found some useful tips on promotuing carnatic music on www.karnatik.com, a new website. The person who mentioned the ideas has thought keenly on the issue and has supplied some very good suggestions. I urge everyone to check it out and try doing what he has advised.
- From: Mani (@ spider-tn042.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Aug 6 14:01:16
IMHO, the carnatic way of playing nadaswaram and thakil is ok, I know you fellows love the carnatic style, but as I said before, it sounds so beautiful to hear the nadaswaram in a procession for rituals to a temple; it gives me goosebumps to see and hear about 3 nadaswarams, with percussions including maybe 2 thakils, a pambai, and an urumi, have any of you heard this kind of processional music?
- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Tue Aug 6 16:50:47
I have experienced this type of music in Palghat, Kerala, during a Kumbavisheam procession. It is certainly good, but my point is that nadaswaram/thavil music is no less to vocal and veena music. They play the same songs with equal (or in the case with thavil, many times more) complexities. They deserve the concert platform just as much as other musicians do.
There are many occasions in temple processions where vocal music is also used. Is it enough to limit them to the temple?
- From: Mani (@ spider-tq032.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Aug 6 22:16:56
It certainly isn't limited to the temple, but it has been known to be a mandatory accessory for temples. In TN, the pair is pretty much used for everything, and it is indeed more popular there than any other south Indian state.
I am just curious on the uses of the pair in other south Indian states.
- From: pramodh (@ aca21fa4.ipt.aol.com)
on: Wed Aug 7 16:49:30
I think both the Nadhaswaram and the thavil have equally played Carnatic music with more complexities vocal or any other music. I dont think there is doubt about that. As I have mentioned before Nadhaswaram played a very significant role in the evolution of the contemporary style of music shaped by the genius, Ariyakudi. This has been carried on by others like GNB and Semmangudi, both themselves inspied by the nadhaswaramm.The thavil as an accompaniment to the nadhaswaram has shared the role to a certain extent.
The fact is that its role has been downplayed partly due the fall in the quality of the artistes and partly due to the difficulty in playing the instrument and also lack of proper environment for practising.
- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Wed Aug 7 18:23:54
Thavil has EQUALLY shaped mridangam artistry as well. The Pazhani School (or Pudukottai school) is based on thavil patterns. You would find major similarities between thavil patterns and patterns played by members of the Pazhani school.
Another factor is the caste factor. Sadly enough, this has kept them as "second class citizens" amongst muscians, and as we know, they are by NO means secondary.
I do not think the quality of vocal music has dramatically risen from the times of Ariyakudi or KVN (the same holds true for violin and mridangam), so it is difficult to say that lowered quality of nadaswaram music pulled their popularity down. I would have to say that the MPN brothers or Namigiripettai are equal to KVN and Nedenuri, if not equal to TNR or Karikurichi (who are equalivalent to GNB and so forth).
- From: Rohan (@ 24.247.121.197.kzo.mi.chartermi.net)
on: Thu Aug 8 12:09:19
In my previous post, I meant to say communal and not secular (in reference to the once communal nature of carnatic music).
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